(12-14-2023 01:53 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 03:31 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 06:47 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  Will the WCC add any of them as long as Gonzaga is there? I wonder if they will add all or just take 1 or 2 with or without Gonzaga. Who will the WAC main targets be to replace them?

WCC could add Cal Baptist & Grand Canyon now while Gonzaga is still in the conference...since Gonzaga would block Seattle from joining while it's in the WCC...once Gonzaga leaves pick up Seattle to stay in WA...WCC could stay at 11 and follow the Big West Conference model...

WAC could keep an eye on UT Dallas as a playmate for UT Arlington...UTD will be upgrading from D3 to D2 and joining Lone Star Conference in 2025...plus the three (3) year transition period would make UTD a full D2 LSC member in 2028...perhaps someone to consider for 2030 WAC membership...

WAC could also reconsider Denver with Cal Baptist, Seattle, and especially Grand Canyon gone to the WCC...Denver does not consider GCU as a peer institution because of its For-Profit status in the eyes of the US Dept. of Ed...Denver would be right smack in the middle of the WAC footprint...

WAC could then cast their sights on Oral Roberts...ORU left the Summit for a hot minute because they wanted to play with the TX schools...things didn't work out for ORU in the SLC but they might consider the playing the WAC TX schools...with some trips to UT and Denver...

My assumption is that WCC would only hold these votes if they knew Gonzaga was ready to leave sooner than later.

The WCC can do whatever it wants. The WAC would have a hard time considering most of these schools named here if their football programs aren't on solid ground or growing. That will always put GCU, SU, and CBU in a little bit of a tough spot. If they want a better over-all conference, with bigger coverage, then they need to stay in the WAC. If they want a slightly more focused conference, then they can move to the WCC. BUT, like others have said... if their prop falls, why do it?

**And no, I'm not just talking about the Texas schools.**

If the WAC were to lose one school it would still be fine with 10. If the membership dipped below 10 however, they would need to scramble to try and find some schools to add, most likely DII call ups from the Lone Star Conference. Other than TAMU Commerce I do not see another D1 school in the WAC footprint that would be willing to join and honestly, WTAMU and Angelo State are more attractive than TAMU Commerce.

(12-14-2023 01:50 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 07:40 PM)DZ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 04:11 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 01:23 AM)DZ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 12:31 AM)RT98 Wrote:  The WAC really needs those three in hoops. So while it would be a good move for those three schools, I hope they decide to stay in the WAC.

As a GCU fan, I too hope we stay in the WAC. The WAC continues to improve and the WCC may not be much if Gonzaga leaves. Besides, in terms of recruiting students the WAC adds both a Texas & Utah market while still including the West coast in SU & CBU. GCU would be foolish to jump ship.

I don't think is would be foolish to join a league that has zero football. I don't think it would be that tough to recruit in TX when in basketball terms none of these 3 schools really pull from that state anyways. Utah isn't a great hoop recruitment area from the HS level and the Juco level most of those kids aren't from Utah.

I would say Seattle/Portland/Bay Area/ LA/ San Diego/ Phoenix offer better talent to pull from than what has been the case in TX and Utah for these 3 anyways. not to mention the international flavor these three have gone after since being D1 anyways.

We will see if the vote is made public or not at some point but I do think UVU and UTA are is a tough spot if these 3 leave.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of recruiting athletic talent when I made the comment. It was in terms of recruiting students to attend GCU. The WAC is better in that regard. GCU massively promotes athletics as a marketing tool to recruit and retain students.

GCU's top 5 states for students are AZ CA OR WA HI then there is NV UT NM TX ID.

Thanks for making my point. GCU already is strong in CA, OR & WA. There is more growth potential in UT, TX and other states not on the West coast. The West coast is also a mess politically so GCU would be wise to avoid them as much as possible.

(12-14-2023 03:23 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  If the WAC were to lose one school it would still be fine with 10. If the membership dipped below 10 however, they would need to scramble to try and find some schools to add, most likely DII call ups from the Lone Star Conference. Other than TAMU Commerce I do not see another D1 school in the WAC footprint that would be willing to join and honestly, WTAMU and Angelo State are more attractive than TAMU Commerce.

Perhaps not Texas, perhaps Colorado. I would be happy with Colorado Mesa and/or Colorado State-Pueblo. Both have football.

I don't know if Denver would want to move out of the Summit. But I also haven't been keeping up on them lately.

No, Denver does not want to come back to WAC. CSU Pueblo has less than 5k students and no money to build facilities to D1 Level. Mesa is a better option, but not sure if they can/want to move up. The only DII school in Colorado capable of moving up (without question) is Colorado School of Mines, but not sure they have any interest. I could totally go for that add though. WTAM has nice football facilities and has money to upgrade others as needed. Angelo State would need to upgrade as well and money would be an issue, but they do have far more potential than CSU Mesa.

https://www.wtamu.edu/news/2022/02/wts-b...-gift.html

(12-14-2023 03:23 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  If the WAC were to lose one school it would still be fine with 10. If the membership dipped below 10 however, they would need to scramble to try and find some schools to add, most likely DII call ups from the Lone Star Conference. Other than TAMU Commerce I do not see another D1 school in the WAC footprint that would be willing to join and honestly, WTAMU and Angelo State are more attractive than TAMU Commerce.

I think that's where they would look, although I would like to see the WAC look elsewhere. It's just that we have discussed other possibilities out of state ad nauseum and there really isn't anyone ready. The WAC needs to keep a larger footprint geographically and in the sports world.

(12-14-2023 04:47 PM)DZ1 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 01:50 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 07:40 PM)DZ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 04:11 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 01:23 AM)DZ1 Wrote:  As a GCU fan, I too hope we stay in the WAC. The WAC continues to improve and the WCC may not be much if Gonzaga leaves. Besides, in terms of recruiting students the WAC adds both a Texas & Utah market while still including the West coast in SU & CBU. GCU would be foolish to jump ship.

I don't think is would be foolish to join a league that has zero football. I don't think it would be that tough to recruit in TX when in basketball terms none of these 3 schools really pull from that state anyways. Utah isn't a great hoop recruitment area from the HS level and the Juco level most of those kids aren't from Utah.

I would say Seattle/Portland/Bay Area/ LA/ San Diego/ Phoenix offer better talent to pull from than what has been the case in TX and Utah for these 3 anyways. not to mention the international flavor these three have gone after since being D1 anyways.

We will see if the vote is made public or not at some point but I do think UVU and UTA are is a tough spot if these 3 leave.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of recruiting athletic talent when I made the comment. It was in terms of recruiting students to attend GCU. The WAC is better in that regard. GCU massively promotes athletics as a marketing tool to recruit and retain students.

GCU's top 5 states for students are AZ CA OR WA HI then there is NV UT NM TX ID.

Thanks for making my point. GCU already is strong in CA, OR & WA. There is more growth potential in UT, TX and other states not on the West coast. The West coast is also a mess politically so GCU would be wise to avoid them as much as possible.

GCU is pulling more students from British Columbia does that mean GCU should focus on Manitoba too while joining the Canada West for athletics?

GCU is pulling more students from British Columbia does that mean GCU should focus on Manitoba too while joining the Canada West for athletics?
[/quote]

GCU can still do what it wants, that's always been it's prerogative.

(12-14-2023 07:57 PM)Outsider Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 03:23 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  If the WAC were to lose one school it would still be fine with 10. If the membership dipped below 10 however, they would need to scramble to try and find some schools to add, most likely DII call ups from the Lone Star Conference. Other than TAMU Commerce I do not see another D1 school in the WAC footprint that would be willing to join and honestly, WTAMU and Angelo State are more attractive than TAMU Commerce.

I think that's where they would look, although I would like to see the WAC look elsewhere. It's just that we have discussed other possibilities out of state ad nauseum and there really isn't anyone ready. The WAC needs to keep a larger footprint geographically and in the sports world.

With virtually no one ready to move up and no other D1 school remotely interested, the WAC has a huge problem. The question is how many more schools does the WAC have to lose before it get aggressive enough to find new members.

(12-15-2023 01:59 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 07:57 PM)Outsider Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 03:23 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  If the WAC were to lose one school it would still be fine with 10. If the membership dipped below 10 however, they would need to scramble to try and find some schools to add, most likely DII call ups from the Lone Star Conference. Other than TAMU Commerce I do not see another D1 school in the WAC footprint that would be willing to join and honestly, WTAMU and Angelo State are more attractive than TAMU Commerce.

I think that's where they would look, although I would like to see the WAC look elsewhere. It's just that we have discussed other possibilities out of state ad nauseum and there really isn't anyone ready. The WAC needs to keep a larger footprint geographically and in the sports world.

With virtually no one ready to move up and no other D1 school remotely interested, the WAC has a huge problem. The question is how many more schools does the WAC have to lose before it get aggressive enough to find new members.

That is a good question. Are schools like GCU, SU and CBU going to leave the WAC? If so, why?

Those are not the only schools that are at risk of leaving. But as far as those 3 are concerned, I think IF Gonzaga were to leave the WCC for ? ( and it is very iffy right now as I do not think the Big12 will accept them, there is still too much resistance there, but the Big East and Pac?/MWC are also in play) then Seattle would be gone to WCC pretty quickly. The other 2 would also be on their "radar" but not a slam dunk add by any means. The "why" is for several reasons. For Seattle it would be for better travel (cost savings) and to be with schools that are more aligned with them (academic/private/religious) same for CBU except they are a rung below the others in the WCC academically. GCU would love to be in WCC to give them any semblance of academic credibility.

Lets be frank, every school currently in the WAC is here because "of reasons" and if any of them had a choice, they would go elsewhere (other than the Southland...except Lamar who could not compete in WAC) The "Texas 4" came to escape the Southland, SUU came because they must be insane lol ( to escape being a doormat in football and better competition for basketball) and everyone else came because they wanted to move up to D1 (or were already D1 RGV) or kicked out of their former league (UTA) and the WAC was the only conference that would take them. The differences in academics and geography are glaring especially for a low major conference not to mention that half the schools have football and the other half does not. All of those factors are antithetical to conference unity, but everyone seems to make the best of it while they have no other/better choice. That being said, one can argue that the WAC punches far above its weight when it comes to athletic success and the facilities. in the WAC are far ahead of most low/mid majors when it comes to that. The schools in the WAC try very hard (to their credit) to build nice facilities and field competitive teams. It is a conference of misfit toys that are overachievers.

(12-15-2023 04:18 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  Those are not the only schools that are at risk of leaving. But as far as those 3 are concerned, I think IF Gonzaga were to leave the WCC for ? ( and it is very iffy right now as I do not think the Big12 will accept them, there is still too much resistance there, but the Big East and Pac?/MWC are also in play) then Seattle would be gone to WCC pretty quickly. The other 2 would also be on their "radar" but not a slam dunk add by any means. The "why" is for several reasons. For Seattle it would be for better travel (cost savings) and to be with schools that are more aligned with them (academic/private/religious) same for CBU except they are a rung below the others in the WCC academically. GCU would love to be in WCC to give them any semblance of academic credibility.

Lets be frank, every school currently in the WAC is here because "of reasons" and if any of them had a choice, they would go elsewhere (other than the Southland...except Lamar who could not compete in WAC) The "Texas 4" came to escape the Southland, SUU came because they must be insane lol ( to escape being a doormat in football and better competition for basketball) and everyone else came because they wanted to move up to D1 (or were already D1 RGV) or kicked out of their former league (UTA) and the WAC was the only conference that would take them. The differences in academics and geography are glaring especially for a low major conference not to mention that half the schools have football and the other half does not. All of those factors are antithetical to conference unity, but everyone seems to make the best of it while they have no other/better choice. That being said, one can argue that the WAC punches far above its weight when it comes to athletic success and the facilities. in the WAC are far ahead of most low/mid majors when it comes to that. The schools in the WAC try very hard (to their credit) to build nice facilities and field competitive teams. It is a conference of misfit toys that are overachievers.

I agree with what you said and my argument comes from your last piece. Regardless of how we got here, We have been committed institutions that have worked hard to make both ourselves and our conference the very best it can be. The results have spoken for themselves. The WAC is once again showing itself to be a very solid mid-major sports conference that can compete above its own level many times, and that's not including football. The UAC did something that is rare among new conferences, again in spite of being a group of misfits. I would also argue that we have been working hard to improve our academic records as well. Both the WAC and the UAC will have movement, although I would hope the WAC remains more stable as football is more volatile in general and the UAC was kinda designed to be a launching conference. Even at that, I think the UAC has good teams and doesn't necessarily have to be a conference of constant movement. I think it actually has room to grow and become more stable IF managed correctly.

(12-15-2023 01:32 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 04:47 PM)DZ1 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 01:50 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 07:40 PM)DZ1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 04:11 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I don't think is would be foolish to join a league that has zero football. I don't think it would be that tough to recruit in TX when in basketball terms none of these 3 schools really pull from that state anyways. Utah isn't a great hoop recruitment area from the HS level and the Juco level most of those kids aren't from Utah.

I would say Seattle/Portland/Bay Area/ LA/ San Diego/ Phoenix offer better talent to pull from than what has been the case in TX and Utah for these 3 anyways. not to mention the international flavor these three have gone after since being D1 anyways.

We will see if the vote is made public or not at some point but I do think UVU and UTA are is a tough spot if these 3 leave.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of recruiting athletic talent when I made the comment. It was in terms of recruiting students to attend GCU. The WAC is better in that regard. GCU massively promotes athletics as a marketing tool to recruit and retain students.

GCU's top 5 states for students are AZ CA OR WA HI then there is NV UT NM TX ID.

Thanks for making my point. GCU already is strong in CA, OR & WA. There is more growth potential in UT, TX and other states not on the West coast. The West coast is also a mess politically so GCU would be wise to avoid them as much as possible.

GCU is pulling more students from British Columbia does that mean GCU should focus on Manitoba too while joining the Canada West for athletics?

You win. I'm not at all sure how to respond to that argument.

(12-15-2023 04:18 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  Those are not the only schools that are at risk of leaving. But as far as those 3 are concerned, I think IF Gonzaga were to leave the WCC for ? ( and it is very iffy right now as I do not think the Big12 will accept them, there is still too much resistance there, but the Big East and Pac?/MWC are also in play) then Seattle would be gone to WCC pretty quickly. The other 2 would also be on their "radar" but not a slam dunk add by any means. The "why" is for several reasons. For Seattle it would be for better travel (cost savings) and to be with schools that are more aligned with them (academic/private/religious) same for CBU except they are a rung below the others in the WCC academically. GCU would love to be in WCC to give them any semblance of academic credibility.

Lets be frank, every school currently in the WAC is here because "of reasons" and if any of them had a choice, they would go elsewhere (other than the Southland...except Lamar who could not compete in WAC) The "Texas 4" came to escape the Southland, SUU came because they must be insane lol ( to escape being a doormat in football and better competition for basketball) and everyone else came because they wanted to move up to D1 (or were already D1 RGV) or kicked out of their former league (UTA) and the WAC was the only conference that would take them. The differences in academics and geography are glaring especially for a low major conference not to mention that half the schools have football and the other half does not. All of those factors are antithetical to conference unity, but everyone seems to make the best of it while they have no other/better choice. That being said, one can argue that the WAC punches far above its weight when it comes to athletic success and the facilities. in the WAC are far ahead of most low/mid majors when it comes to that. The schools in the WAC try very hard (to their credit) to build nice facilities and field competitive teams. It is a conference of misfit toys that are overachievers.

(12-15-2023 08:17 PM)RT98 Wrote:  

(12-15-2023 04:18 PM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  Those are not the only schools that are at risk of leaving. But as far as those 3 are concerned, I think IF Gonzaga were to leave the WCC for ? ( and it is very iffy right now as I do not think the Big12 will accept them, there is still too much resistance there, but the Big East and Pac?/MWC are also in play) then Seattle would be gone to WCC pretty quickly. The other 2 would also be on their "radar" but not a slam dunk add by any means. The "why" is for several reasons. For Seattle it would be for better travel (cost savings) and to be with schools that are more aligned with them (academic/private/religious) same for CBU except they are a rung below the others in the WCC academically. GCU would love to be in WCC to give them any semblance of academic credibility.

Lets be frank, every school currently in the WAC is here because "of reasons" and if any of them had a choice, they would go elsewhere (other than the Southland...except Lamar who could not compete in WAC) The "Texas 4" came to escape the Southland, SUU came because they must be insane lol ( to escape being a doormat in football and better competition for basketball) and everyone else came because they wanted to move up to D1 (or were already D1 RGV) or kicked out of their former league (UTA) and the WAC was the only conference that would take them. The differences in academics and geography are glaring especially for a low major conference not to mention that half the schools have football and the other half does not. All of those factors are antithetical to conference unity, but everyone seems to make the best of it while they have no other/better choice. That being said, one can argue that the WAC punches far above its weight when it comes to athletic success and the facilities. in the WAC are far ahead of most low/mid majors when it comes to that. The schools in the WAC try very hard (to their credit) to build nice facilities and field competitive teams. It is a conference of misfit toys that are overachievers.

I am really glad that UTA is in the WAC. I think the WAC is a real decent mid major conference and if GCU, CBU and SU stay I believe we will get even better. I wasn't real happy we got kicked out of the Sunbelt because I love college baseball, but as far as basketball we came to a better conference

For Seattle, it is obvious the WCC will not invite them while Gonzaga still is a member. Arena situation doesn't help, but I don't believe is only deal breaker. SU is on-par completely with WCC institutions academically, religiously, and financially. They are a former member even. If Zags leave, SU is a shoe-in.

(12-17-2023 10:52 PM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  For Seattle, it is obvious the WCC will not invite them while Gonzaga still is a member. Arena situation doesn't help, but I don't believe is only deal breaker. SU is on-par completely with WCC institutions academically, religiously, and financially. They are a former member even. If Zags leave, SU is a shoe-in.

WCC has an arena/gym size expectation for all members which is 3k seats for basketball. SU currently is 3x smaller than that. I would think WCC could look the other way for adding them but they would get the Chicago St treatment until that was fixed. Or they could ask SeattleU to play in Kent or Everett until SU has a WCC approved facility for hoops.

Sources: Oregon State, Washington State working on agreement with WCC for non-football sports
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-oregon-...02049.html


PAC 2 are building relationships with potential future PAC members...whether merger or future invite...

MWC did get PAC 2 Non-FB sports...for now...for whatever reason...probably scheduling issues...but at least the MWC got FB...

WCC gets to do a proof of concept with 11 members...PAC 2 will play less BB conference games...less members in the conference...only have to get past Gonzaga for the NCAAT bid...plus less travel for Non-FB sports and have two (2) PNW WCC members (Gonzaga/Portland) in the geographic region...

PAC
> Reverse Merges with MWC (2026)...
> Invites all 12 from MWC...
> Hawaii (FB Only)...
> Invites Gonzaga (Non-FB)
> Gets to (14/14) membership...

WCC loses Gonzaga to PAC (2026)...down to 8 members...
> Adds Cal Baptist, Seattle & Grand Canyon...
> Gets to 11...
> Follows the Big West Conference model of 11 members...

WAC loses CBU, SU, & GCU...down to 8 members...
> Loses three (3) Non-FB members
> UVU & UTA remaining Non FB members
> Keeps an eye on UT Dallas for potential future WAC membership (2030)...
>> UTD (D3) joining D2 Lone Star Conference in 2025...
>> D3 to D2 transition period 3 years (2028)...
>> UTD full LSC member 2028...
> On the look out to add FB playing members at a later time...
> May lose members Tarleton St. & Stephen F Austin to CUSA in the future...

(12-17-2023 10:52 PM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  For Seattle, it is obvious the WCC will not invite them while Gonzaga still is a member. Arena situation doesn't help, but I don't believe is only deal breaker. SU is on-par completely with WCC institutions academically, religiously, and financially. They are a former member even. If Zags leave, SU is a shoe-in.

WCC has an arena/gym size expectation for all members which is 3k seats for basketball. SU currently is 3x smaller than that. I would think WCC could look the other way for adding them but they would get the Chicago St treatment until that was fixed. Or they could ask SeattleU to play in Kent or Everett until SU has a WCC approved facility for hoops.